Talkin MMA with Ed Fishman
Published by on April 21st, 2008 in Interviews

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By Scoop Malinowski

Gaming industry pioneer Ed Fishman very nearly became the owner of Pride USA. But UFC intercepted the deal and subsequently pulled the plug on one of the world’s biggest sporting production companies. Ed Fishman took time out to talk about what happened to the almost deal of the century:

MMAMemories.com: Give us a quick background on who Ed Fishman is for those who don’t know. Your history in the casino business up to you meeting Sakikabara in Japan.

Ed Fishman: “I started entertainment the industry game shows Dealer’s Choice, Fun Factory, about six or seven game shows reached the air, we produced and owned with Columbia Pictures. Then while doing game shows in Vegas became fascinated with the whole gaming industry. Invented certain things like world championship of blackjack in ‘78 on CBS. Started tournament business in blackjack, craps, all games, winding up in ‘84 doing the Olympics of games, blackjack, craps, slots. We did it at Harrah’s in Atlantic City in 1984. But also did tournaments around the world – Nassau, Monte Carlo, on cruise ships, we had very big tournaments. Other things were cash advances, business cash advance machines – and sold it to American Express, involved in helping create the magazines Players and Slots. Then finally decided to get into the casino business with Players International with my late partner Merv Griffin. And we built and owned five casinos throughout the U.S.

I was over doing some work in Beijing, China, consulting on their lottery business. And a senator from China invited me to go to Japan to go with him to watch Pride five years ago. We went to the Tokyo Dome with 70,000 people in the arena and realized this was an exciting business for real athletes and real entertainers. After several more trips to Japan to meet with Nobu (Sakikabara) , he opened an office in Los Angeles and had been trying to get Pride into the U.S. He wanted to know if I’d want to become involved in opening the U.S. for Pride. I became president of Pride USA and decided to do it in Las Vegas at the Thomas & Mack. I was fortunate to have Harrah’s, especially Caesars Palace, The Venetian and Steve Wynn and Hard Rock all play a role in promotions and bought tickets for their good players.

Even though Pride was not well known in the U.S. by the average person, we were successful in the first two events, doing over $2 million in just ticket sales for each fight, not including sponsorship and television. Unfortunately Fuji TV canceled them ( in Japan) because of the Yakuza accusation (Japanese mob). And Nobu, when he told me that, I told him I’d be very interested in acquiring Pride but that I’d have to do my due diligence on what I was buying, exactly what I was getting and what people would still be involved and complete background checks on the staff.

Due to my involvement in gaming I told him it would take approximately three months. He informed me the UFC, the Fertitta brothers, directly said they’d acquire Pride much faster then that and they would keep the Pride organization and production in tact in regards to the quality that it was known for.

I had agreed to keep the quality of the Pride organization and to build and develop it in other countries. But a thorough due diligence could not be done that fast. Nobu decided to sell it to Zuffa or UFC. And the rest is history. It did not turn out to be what everybody thought it would be – a Super Bowl of the top two organizations of the world. But instead Zuffa closed down the Japanese office and did not continue with the Pride fights as we all know how it was for 10 years.

Today it is my understanding there are lawsuits on both sides with Zuffa suing Nobu and Nobu suing Zuffa. And as of today there are no Pride events being done anywhere in the world. Also Japan has a new organization called Dream. It consists of a lot of the top people of Pride combined with top people from K-1 producing fights in Japan similar in stature to the old Pride fights. Currently I’m still very interested in the MMA base and carefully looking at different opportunities to get involved. But to me they have to be very special unique events, because there are so many regular mixed martial arts fights that are now shown in the U.S.”

MMAMemories.com: In your short time as Pride USA president can you talk about what your responsibilities were and the deals you put together with Caesars in Korea, slots etc?

Ed Fishman: “It was really taking the Pride organization to America, everywhere from getting the event centers, getting the sponsors, getting tickets sold and marketing the Pride name in the U.S. This was also in coordination with all the Pride people who knew how to produce an excellent event but were not really familiar with how to market the U.S. or set up the right sponsorship. Caesars Palace, which was always known for staging the best sporting events in the world was a great asset in getting the first two Pride events off the ground. And becoming successful in a brand new type of fight that no one except the MGM group who housed the UFC fights, were very well known especially in Las Vegas. And of course Pride being a Japanese based company, iy was not as well known in Las Vegas or the rest of the U.S.”

MMAMemories.com: When Zuffa purchased Pride last year according to reports you sued over your contract for $10 million dollars. You threatened depositions against the Fertita’s and Sakikabara that had the MMA media buzzing, then this case was quietly settled. We can only assume you got paid off handsomely to go away. Can you talk about this?

Ed Fishman: “I can’t release the details but I think both sides were happy with the settlement. I was very sorry I couldn’t continue the Pride name. It wouldn’t have ended up like it is now, totally non-existent.”

MMAMemories.com: The follow up question that has led to much speculation in MMA circles, How much money, if any, did YOU invest in Pride prior to or when you were president leading up to the 2 Las Vegas show. There has been chatter in the industry that you kept Pride afloat with your own personal funds and that was the real reason behind your law suit.

Ed Fishman: “I can honestly say that’s not the truth. I did spend personal money in travel and marketing, etcetera. But that wasn’t a big dollar amount or a subject of the lawsuit. The lawsuit was based on that I had a five-year exclusive contract to do Pride events in the U.S.”

MMAMemories.com: You offered to Buy Pride for $65 million dollars subject to due diligence . The Pride people were not interested in you doing due diligence for obvious reasons. Zuffa jumped in and purchased the company. Knowing what you know now about the real assets of Pride. What was the company REALLY worth?

Ed Fishman: “Even today I still don’t know. The thing I do know is most contracts with Pride were personal service contracts, not always enforceable. That you would have to renegotiate many fighter contracts. Second, the Pride library which was valuable but I’m not exactly sure how Fuji ownership or distribution would have affected the acquiring of the library. Third, I would have to put a value on what the Pride name meant to the U.S. and other parts of the world. And that would be established by due diligence, research and focus groups on the name logo, etcetera. It was too vague, $65 million came up as something Nobu put an approximate price on. I’m sure now it wasn’t anywhere near that, if I did the due diligence which obviously was not done in depth.”

MMAMemories.com: What are your personal thoughts on how Zuffa handled the Pride asset sale? Do you think “hidden owners” are why Zuffa shut pride down? Or was it simply the Japanese refusal to work with American Company? Would events have played out the same had you had purchased the company? Was UFC just happy to kill Pride off?

Ed Fishman: “I’ll start with the last – I think UFC realized Pride would be a successful competitor in the U.S. if I would have acquired it. Just based on the first two initial events. And my opinion is that their reason to purchase was in part to stop a major competitor. If I would have bought it, knowing how the Japanese work, I would have definitely brought in full-time Japanese executives here to the U.S. to continue their way of producing the production of Pride events.”

MMAMemories.com: You had a very solid business plan with Pride, one that had the end result of the casinos attracting all types of international high rollers. Would you be able to execute this plan with any other MMA company?

Ed Fishman: “Yes. Again, being around the casino industry for the past 35 years I understand that it has to be good on both sides – for a casino to put their name behind it has to be a quality event and bring in quality fans and a good player base. Those are the kinds of things I discussed earlier, that I’d done all my life.”

MMAMemories.com: Are you still looking to invest in MMA or are you content with your settlement from Pride?

Ed Fishman: “No. I don’t know if the word content fits [laughs]. I would have rather have acquired than to have settled just for money. And today Pride would be huge in the U.S., bigger than anyone could have imagined. I especially would have continued the Pride events in the quality of both the production and the events and the fighters that were on such a high class level in this sport. Also I have had many meetings with several of the major mixed martial arts organizations and know entrepreneurs who want to get into this mixed martial arts space. And am still involved in talks with about getting involved in mixed martial arts.”

MMAMemories.com: What do you think of the UFC’s lawsuit with Pride? Does it have any merit? What about Sakikabara’s fighting the suit in Las Vegas? How will this shake out? Do you think you will be deposed in the case?

Ed Fishman: “The answer is I don’t know if I will be deposed or not. If I am certainly I will give an honest opinion of the Pride organization and it’s personnel. I don’t know (how it will shake out), I think it’s very hard because I was not in conversations on either side, what was promised, what was not. Especially oral promises that both sides were given and not followed through on. My only regret is that Pride is not existing throughout the world today.”

MMAMemories.com: What does the UFC have to gain, in filing this suit if the money they spent for Pride is basically gone? Why are they fighting the suit?

Ed Fishman: “Well, from what I’ve read and nothing more, I know that there are consulting payments still due to Sakikabara. And possibly other money that was still due. So whether or not somebody ever wins in a lawsuit is always questionable.”

MMAMemories.com: Now that this is all over, what are your thoughts on Sakikabara? Both as a creative force and as a business man? Can he do what he did for Japanese soccer what he did with Pride?

Ed Fishman: “I think he was a very bright businessman who developed a very big brand in Japan and was able to produce excellent events with top fighters. I also believe he realized he could not do the same thing in the U.S. As for our business association, for the short time I was with Pride, it was a good one. But I believe the pressure, especially the financial pressures put upon him with Fuji canceling the show, and the events forcing him to to sell to Zuffa. Because du diligence could be done in such a speedy and timely manner. I’m not familiar with the soccer in Japan, as we both know it’s a hard, upward battle here in the U.S. to make soccer as popular as it is in other countries. But he does have the marketing experience in Japan to accomplish this.”

MMAMemories.com: In the past year, you have been approached by virtually every MMA promotion big and small to invest following the Pride debacle. We would like your opinion on the major players in MMA today?

Ed Fishman: “I haven’t been approached by every single one. Zuffa and I have not had any conversations. I think it’s been a hard road for other companies to be successful. I think everybody realizes the turning point in the UFC’s history was the reality show on Spike. I really believe that any real success comes from television exposure, to get to know the fighters, their backgrounds, their personalities and get a fan base built around these individuals. Also I believe you need the exposure on pay-per-view to really financially be successful in a very grandiose way in the U.S.”

MMAMemories.com: And finally, do you have any personal anecdotes of Fedor? From your time spent with him?

Ed Fishman: “I got to spend time with him. I went to Russia over 40 times. Fedor’s a great fighter, a great individual. Well, it was after our first fight in Las Vegas. I went into the dressing room after, to thank him and congratulate him on his victory. He was there with his managers and Josh Barnett. Very gracious. I’m not a big drinker, they were toasting the success of the first fight in Vegas. I toasted with them and a lot of laughs were done, then I kind of gagged on whatever it was they were drinking.  I told them this could be put in my car. So we had a very good laugh. You had to see the looks on their faces. (laughs) But Fedor’s a nice gentleman and certainly a quality fighter.”

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